@Andres you're lucky then. i gave up convincing people to switch - it was always the same story "i won't install another app/register another account" or "i don't have anything to hide". it was like talking to the wall ๐
@spycrab @shipwreckt Signal is a corporation (yes, it doesn't store your data or messages, so it's kind of safe) Matrix is a protocol, no one controls it; Like Activity Pub, people can build applications over it, just like and
@Andres @spycrab @shipwreckt A non-profit corporation is fundamentally different from a for-profit one. Signal Technology Foundation is a 501c3 non-profit corporation, which is unfortunately necessary for an organization trying to do what they're doing.
Signal is no more a "corporation" than Mastodon is (they're both corporations, but neither of them are for-profit).
@manchicken I agree with everything you are saying about signal but trying to make the point that 501c3 means that the organization behaves differently than traditional for-profit corporations is absolutely dangerous in our current world. If you need an example then just take a look at our health care system.
I'm not saying Signal is behaving in a for-profit manner but your argument is completely useless at best. @Andres @spycrab @shipwreckt
One matter which I don't see brought up often enough is that while warrants for logs depend on the logs existing, however a company may also be made to record network access logs forward, e.g. by connecting an appliance of unknown origin to their networks.
This isn't very viable if the infrastructure is decentralized.
@phil Nothing to do with my argument. I was only pointing out that 501c3 does not negate for-profit behavior. I'm not interested in this petty back and forth of Signal bad or signal good... @Andres @shipwreckt @manchicken @spycrab
@mwguy nah. I am all for it but my wife said โmehโ. I joined this month and itโsโฆ fine. But no one I know in real life is on it, there is no mobile app, and the setup can be a little off-putting. The fedi platforms have an incredible opportunity right now to take in a lot of social media refugees, but the ones without apps (friendica, loops, etc) are going to struggle to get traction with a population that is accustomed to convenience.
@VTDARKSIM Dang. I think I could get my wife and her family off facebook (because they're all a little fed up with it right now). But I'd need a solid replacement for facebook groups as they use to to coordinate family stuff.
@mwguy Iโve been pushing the fediverse for a while now, but the big 2โs fascist overtures lately have finally radicalized my wife to consider it. She happily joined #pixelfed and has convinced several friends to join.
I think thatโs the key. If you/she can get a group to join together, and then they can convince someone else to do so, it will become a more attractive option. Itโs the chicken & egg scenario right now.
@VTDARKSIM This is absolutely a big part of the issue. Additionally it's tough to explain that they need to have an account for Mastadon, Lemmy, Loops, Pixelfed etc... to utilize all the aspects of the fediverse instead of being able to "take you ID with you" across different tools.
@mwguy absolutely, though I will say I joined #mastodon first, then #pixelfed, then #friendica. Only then did I see I can sign in to the mastodon app with all 3 accounts. I donโt think itโs quite as universally seamless yet (for instance, the pixelfed app has the option to sign in with your mastodon account, but it wouldnโt work for me presumably because my instance hasnโt enabled it?), but I think itโs heading there.
@mwguy @VTDARKSIM Friendica can do pretty much all the other federated services without other accounts though discovery of people on the others will be more difficult. Groups are a particular weak point. They are kind of buried. It took me a few weeks, even as an IT guy, to realize it had native groups in Friendica. They are not obvious. 'Mouse over' opens up a lot of things which makes mobile less usable. I would like to see an ease of usabilty theme developed with more obvious buttons
@caos @mwguy those appear (from what I can translate) to be either for android or non-friendica apps. Doesnโt look like the iPhone app circle overlaps with the friendica circle in the fedi Venn diagram.
@brawnybunkbedbuddy @Daniel Supernault Far as I know, Diaspora is going strong, and its interface is quite nice, definitely better than Friendica (someone needs to build themes for Friendica that improve the interface), problem is that they only use their own sharing protocol, which cuts them off from most of the Fediverse
Never was on Xitter, but I'm here. Never been on "insta," or What'sApp, or TikTok. Debating leaving FB and not switching to anything. YT with ad blockers and a VPN for now.
Long interesting discussion! Another idea, while weโre at it, might be to buy a Fairphone with /e/os and resist the temptation of installing the โwrong appsโ. They also sell tablets. Reasonably locked down Linux on your computer and youโre set. Am I the only one who sees the irony of choosing โsafeโ apps but still using the machines and osโ of the beast? . If you have to use them at work, wait till you get home to socialize online, or take your Fairphone on your pee break.
Mike Macgirvin, the creator of Friendica and Hubzilla, has made a whole tree of at least (...counts...) nine forks after Hubzilla, eight of which were nomadic. Two of them still exist.
One is intentionally nameless, intentionally brandless, intentionally not a project and intentionally released into the public domain. Since the community needed to address to it by something, they took the name of the code repository (which needed a name), put parentheses around it and called it (streams).
It's a fork (2021) of a fork (Roadhouse; 2021) of three forks (Osada, Mistpark 2020 a.k.a. Misty, Redmatrix 2020; 2020) of a fork (Zap; 2018) of maybe another fork (Osada; non-nomadic; 2018; if Zap was forked from Osada rather than directly from Hubzilla;) of Hubzilla.
(streams) is reduced in features and connectivity in comparison with Hubzilla, but so were the first Osada and Zap. However, in terms of permission control and nomadicity, it's at least up-to-par with Hubzilla. In fact, it isn't quite as difficult to use as Hubzilla because permission handling has been adapted what the Fediverse of the 2020s actually requires as opposed to what a hypothetical Fediverse of the mid-2010s centred around the Red Matrix would require.
I've made a series of tables that compare Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams). You can find them here.
The other still existing fork is Forte from August, 2024. Forte is a direct fork of (streams). It's highly experimental because all support for the Nomad protocol was removed, and it has to rely on ActivityPub for nomadic identity. Thus, it is not officially released yet, it does not have public instances, and it is not recommended as a stable, reliable daily driver yet.
Signal has a very questionable policy. for example: their client is open source, but they are against forks and third-party clients. for this reason there is no signal client for f-droid. well, and they also require your phone number. so-so
@DearFox @Daniel Supernault I've had problems with Signal to the point where I gave up and went back to Telegram, mostly just my user name getting detached from my count constantly, but throw in the lack of stickers, crappy app and limitations on how many devices you can have...
1) it is not safe and other viewers see your IP. 2) the search and algorithms are very questionable and morally outdated. 3) it simply cannot provide all the information that is on YouTube.
and this follows: if you are an author, then peertube will not give you even 100 viewers. if you are a viewer: it is very difficult to find something interesting or useful for yourself.
Lemmy is the most usable one and the only I frequent daily out of the whole fediverse, even with the lower numbers in comparison, its consistent with it's growth and way more constructive than reddit
I have to say that I just really paid attention to the logos for Loops and Peertube and I think theyโre brilliant. I have no idea if you intended for Loops to reference/riff Peertubeโs design language, but itโs very good either way (Peertube evoking federation through the โplayโ triangle pointing in multiple directions while also itself being a โplayโ triangle; almost the same sized triangle in the negative space with the looping graphics for Loops).
Andres Jalinton
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •brawnybunkbedbuddy
in reply to Andres Jalinton • • •@Andres signal would be much easier for less experienced users because it also allows you to find contacts by phone number.
i saw my friends coming to signal while the only contact on matrix is my SO because we decided to give it a try for a while - without a success.
Andres Jalinton
in reply to brawnybunkbedbuddy • • •I have all my family on matrix, they just use it, it's very simple.
brawnybunkbedbuddy
in reply to Andres Jalinton • • •Spycrab
in reply to Andres Jalinton • • •Andres Jalinton
in reply to Spycrab • • •@shipwreckt
Signal is a corporation (yes, it doesn't store your data or messages, so it's kind of safe)
Matrix is a protocol, no one controls it; Like Activity Pub, people can build applications over it, just like
manchicken
in reply to Andres Jalinton • • •@Andres @spycrab @shipwreckt A non-profit corporation is fundamentally different from a for-profit one. Signal Technology Foundation is a 501c3 non-profit corporation, which is unfortunately necessary for an organization trying to do what they're doing.
Signal is no more a "corporation" than Mastodon is (they're both corporations, but neither of them are for-profit).
Bob K Mertz
in reply to manchicken • • •@manchicken
I agree with everything you are saying about signal but trying to make the point that 501c3 means that the organization behaves differently than traditional for-profit corporations is absolutely dangerous in our current world. If you need an example then just take a look at our health care system.
I'm not saying Signal is behaving in a for-profit manner but your argument is completely useless at best.
@Andres @spycrab @shipwreckt
Phil
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •One matter which I don't see brought up often enough is that while warrants for logs depend on the logs existing, however a company may also be made to record network access logs forward, e.g. by connecting an appliance of unknown origin to their networks.
This isn't very viable if the infrastructure is decentralized.
Wiretapping isn't new, or rare.
Bob K Mertz
in reply to Phil • • •Nothing to do with my argument. I was only pointing out that 501c3 does not negate for-profit behavior. I'm not interested in this petty back and forth of Signal bad or signal good...
@Andres @shipwreckt @manchicken @spycrab
shipwreckt
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •@RagingWolfBob @manchicken @Andres @spycrab
Our health care system, brother I have NHS its great stuff ๐๐ป
Either way some day signal I'll go down, so will WhatsApp and all those other bits
Bob K Mertz
in reply to shipwreckt • • •You don't live in the US... Cool. Thanks for chiming in and adding value to the conversation.
@manchicken @Andres @spycrab
mwguy
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to mwguy • • •mwguy
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to mwguy • • •@mwguy Iโve been pushing the fediverse for a while now, but the big 2โs fascist overtures lately have finally radicalized my wife to consider it. She happily joined #pixelfed and has convinced several friends to join.
I think thatโs the key. If you/she can get a group to join together, and then they can convince someone else to do so, it will become a more attractive option. Itโs the chicken & egg scenario right now.
mwguy
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to mwguy • • •Global Switch Day!
in reply to mwguy • • •Kyle Dรถring
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •@loops has an app in both the Play Store and App Store
Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to Kyle Dรถring • • •Kyle Dรถring
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •@VTDARKSIM @mwguy @loops oh woops might only still be in test flight?
testflight.apple.com/join/d7aPโฆ
Join the Loops by Pixelfed beta
testflight.apple.comChris Geoghooligan
in reply to Kyle Dรถring • • •A.Stringer
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •Chris Geoghooligan reshared this.
bread
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to bread • • •@breadcattt @mwguy it appears to be in testing and not ready for widespread use just yet
mastodon.social/@kyleirl/11392โฆ
Kyle Dรถring
2025-01-31 19:29:33
mwguy
in reply to bread • • •Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to mwguy • • •Richard A
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to Richard A • • •caos
in reply to Chris Geoghooligan • • •@Chris Geoghooligan @mwguy There are already a few mobile apps especially for Friendica: #Raccoon and #Relatica . But I have no experience with them, the best is always the web app because it has all the functions. However, I wouldn't really recommend Friendica to people who only want to use it on their smartphone.
@Daniel Supernault
Chris Geoghooligan
in reply to caos • • •๐ด Seph ๐ญ ๐พ
in reply to mwguy • •mwguy
in reply to ๐ด Seph ๐ญ ๐พ • • •๐ด Seph ๐ญ ๐พ
in reply to mwguy • •mwguy likes this.
mwguy
in reply to ๐ด Seph ๐ญ ๐พ • • •Daniel Supernault
in reply to mwguy • • •@mwguy @vextaur We have Groups, but they need a bit of polish and APIs for the mobile app support.
Stay tuned though, they are just like FB Groups (down to the UI) with support for Private federated groups!
mwguy
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •mwguy
in reply to mwguy • • •๐ด Seph ๐ญ ๐พ
in reply to mwguy • •mwguy likes this.
brawnybunkbedbuddy
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •๐ด Seph ๐ญ ๐พ
in reply to brawnybunkbedbuddy • •caos likes this.
peachfiend - they/them ๐โ๐ฆ
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •warmaster
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •nokzemedia
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •gogojack
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Jakob Fel :rg2: :sega:
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •jakofields
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Axis
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •FreedomSteph
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Don
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Jรถrgi
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •ity
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Juancho
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Juancho • • •@Juancho @Daniel Supernault Not the only one.
Mike Macgirvin, the creator of Friendica and Hubzilla, has made a whole tree of at least (...counts...) nine forks after Hubzilla, eight of which were nomadic. Two of them still exist.
One is intentionally nameless, intentionally brandless, intentionally not a project and intentionally released into the public domain. Since the community needed to address to it by something, they took the name of the code repository (which needed a name), put parentheses around it and called it (streams).
It's a fork (2021)
of a fork (Roadhouse; 2021)
of three forks (Osada, Mistpark 2020 a.k.a. Misty, Redmatrix 2020; 2020)
of a fork (Zap; 2018)
of maybe another fork (Osada; non-nomadic; 2018; if Zap was forked from Osada rather than directly from Hubzilla;)
of Hubzilla.
(streams) is reduced in features and connectivity in comparison with Hubzilla, but so were the first Osada and Zap. However, in terms of permission control and nomadicity, it's at least up-to-par with Hubzilla. In fact, it isn't quite as difficult to use as Hubzilla because permission handling has been adapted what the Fediverse of the 2020s actually requires as opposed to what a hypothetical Fediverse of the mid-2010s centred around the Red Matrix would require.
I've made a series of tables that compare Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams). You can find them here.
The other still existing fork is Forte from August, 2024. Forte is a direct fork of (streams). It's highly experimental because all support for the Nomad protocol was removed, and it has to rely on ActivityPub for nomadic identity. Thus, it is not officially released yet, it does not have public instances, and it is not recommended as a stable, reliable daily driver yet.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte
streams
Codeberg.orgDaniel Supernault
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •@jupiter_rowland ngl, Mike Macgirvin is one of those generational forces that really changes things.
I know he doesn't like me, but I stan his eloquent ingenuity, devs like him are rare, and I hope we can work together one day!
DearFox
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •well, and they also require your phone number. so-so
๐ด Seph ๐ญ ๐พ
in reply to DearFox • •DearFox likes this.
DearFox
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •peer tube is not a full replacement for YouTube.
1) it is not safe and other viewers see your IP.
2) the search and algorithms are very questionable and morally outdated.
3) it simply cannot provide all the information that is on YouTube.
and this follows: if you are an author, then peertube will not give you even 100 viewers.
if you are a viewer: it is very difficult to find something interesting or useful for yourself.
ShiroBloo
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Martin Clavey
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Jess ex machina
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Mx Verda
in reply to Jess ex machina • • •Jess ex machina
in reply to Mx Verda • • •@dansup
Daniel Supernault
in reply to Jess ex machina • • •3dmvr
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •3dmvr
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •4d tommie
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •meta-morphosis.nl/
Why are people leaving Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp and Twitter?
www.meta-morphosis.nlลคule
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Hugo Korterik
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •jakob ๐ฆ๐น โ
in reply to Hugo Korterik • • •@Hugo Korterik @Daniel Supernault
Fediverse... ๐
BongoBaggins
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Paul Giulan
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Rev. Charles Browning
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Williams Jessica
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Christopher Edward
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Arthur
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Daniel Supernault
in reply to Arthur • • •Arthur
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •Ray Glittersoft ๐๐๐
in reply to Daniel Supernault • • •